Ep. 87 The truth about mum guilt with Carolyn Cowan

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This week, we welcome Carolyn Cowan back to the podcast. If you’ve been listening for a while, you might remember the last conversation we had together. We had such an incredible response to that episode so I’m excited to welcome her back.

Carolyn is a London-based psychosexual and relationship therapist. In this week’s episode, we have a wide-ranging conversation about relationships, shame and the difference between guilt and shame. As ever, we go quite deep and sometimes into some uncomfortable spaces.

One of the things I most love about Carolyn are her practical concepts and ideas – she shares some really helpful advice around how to heal from some of the topics we discuss. I hope you enjoy the episode.

You can download a transcript of this week’s episode here.

As always, we continue the conversation over on Instagram, so once you’ve listened to the episode, come and join me there.

Key Takeaways From This Week’s Episode:

The Difference Between Guilt and Shame

• You feel guilty when a person did something wrong based on his or her beliefs or moral conduct. (4:23)

• Shame, on the other hand, is the sensation that you are bad. If someone is harshly shamed, that person may find himself or herself at the end of the spiral, thinking that the only way out is death. (4:57)

• Shame is one of the most ultimate things that the vagus nerve can do. (5:28)

• Anxiety is part of shame. (5:56)

• Deep anxiety is fundamentally our inability to trust ourselves, and that, in essence, is also shame. (6:24)
  

Mum Guilt or Mum Shame?

• There is an enormous amount of cultural and religious baggage that comes with shame, without you having to be religious. (7:28)

• Women were allowed to have a soul but were never allowed to be enlightened. Women are considered to be reproducers and do not have an estate in their own right. (7:48)

• Society consistently places women in a secondary citizen role, and everything that they do as mothers makes it very hard for them to feel that they are good mothers. (8:27)

• When mothers feel shame, they are not allowed to win. (11:16)

• The subconscious cultural pressures on ourselves have a far more significant impact than we realise. (11:33)

Transition to Motherhood

• Mothers may have all kinds of backgrounds, and giving birth can be amazing. But the vital question to ask as a mother is, ‘How present can you be?’ (13:20)

• The moment you give birth, nobody can do motherhood for you. (13:39)

• Nobody talks about the shock of giving birth and becoming a mother. (13:52)

• The hardest things about new mothers are the complete overwhelm and the loss of their sense of self. (14:01)

• Sometimes, the behaviours that helped us cope pre-motherhood, such as perfectionism and having a lot of control, are all manifestations of shame. These expectations cause breakdowns in motherhood. (14:51)

• When mothers feel abandoned, they may revert to behaviours like sobbing, crying, obscenity, blaming and judging. Such mechanisms, unfortunately, fractures our relational space and puts mothers in a vulnerable situation. (16:53)

• Such behaviours and habits will eventually be observed and picked up by your children. The relational play that they are witnessing can affect how they will behave. (17:20)

How Does Shame Look like in a Relationship?

• Initially, your relationship with your partner is erotic and sexual, but by the time you have given birth, it will change. By the time you have had children, you'll be triggered by extreme behaviours and emotional responses because of the stress. This is where shame emerges. (20:26)

• Shame will now be incorporated with how you relate to your partner and discipline your children, and you will use it to make yourself a victim in an attempt to be rescued. You will go into a shame spiral. (20:52)

• When caught in that intense situation, the relationship will descend into two children and not two grown adults. (22:53)

• We have different ways that we behave when we feel shame. (23:58)

Relational Play: The Drama Triangle

• When you are on a shame spiral, you switch to different roles: the victim, the persecutor and the rescuer (24:11)

• This cycle can lead to a stand-off. (24:49)

The Different Pages of Dealing with Shame

• Page 1: When I am a bad person (25:52)

• Page 2: When I am angry or upset and behaving from a child place (25:54)

• Page 3: Recognising that I'm playing this game of victim, persecutor, and rescuer. (26:04)

• Page 4: How do I not play? (26:09)

How to Deal with Shame as an Adult

• It will take a considerable amount of time and attention. It also takes a lot of work. (27:39)

• It is essential to recognise that all of these behaviours are weapons and armours we use to protect ourselves. (30:34)

• You have to feel safe enough so that you can stop your unpleasant actions. (31:58)

Abuse in Relationships

• Essentially, it is abuse that leads us to shame. (35:20)

• It can come in eight forms: emotional, physical, intellectual, sexual, religious, financial, racial and gender abuse. (35:50)

• Our bodies can also be a source of our shame. (37:48)

• We've got hundreds of different ways that we can feel shame and hundreds of different ways that we can be abused. (38:51)

How Can Change Happen?

• Start with small and tiny steps. (43:05)

• Keep a journal by your bed and answer these questions before you go to sleep. (43:23)

• How did I do today?

• What would I do differently?

• Where did I have my victories?

• How do I feel about myself on reflection?

• Remember to thank yourself at the end of the day. (43:53)

• The art of recovery is to be gentle with yourself and others. (45:36)

About Carolyn

Carolyn Cowan is a psychosexual and relationship therapist who specialises in addiction and trauma recovery, anxiety, intimacy and issues related to sexuality and gender. She is also an experienced professional trainer and coach. She is also a Kundalini yoga teacher and has her weekly classes at Triyoga Chelsea.

Visit Carolyn’s website or Facebook page to learn more about empowering yourself and your relationships.